This web site is authored by two people (Tim & Kirt) who had surgery and were administered Versed (Midazolam) without being told. In each case the patient awoke to find themselves amazed (and unhappy) that they had been given an amnestic drug prior to surgery without proper explanation of the drug's effects. This site will explore the concerns people have with both how this drug is used and its undesirable side effects.

Thursday, December 15, 2005

Introduction

Did you get Versed (Midazolam)?

How would you feel if you were given a drug, without your knowledge, that wiped out any memory of events that occurred over a period of hours?

That is what happened to us, Tim, Mary and Kirt. Three people who live in different parts of the country, regular folks, who met each other because we were all 3 administered the drug Versed during surgery without our knowledge and spent several hellish months trying to come to grips with what happened to us (for our personal accounts, see below).

If you don't want to know what happened to you during surgery, do not want to be involved in your medical care, or like being put to sleep, stop reading now - this site is not for you.

What is Versed?

Versed, (Midazolam) is an amnestic. It is commonly administered in combination with anesthesia before and during surgery. It is also commonly used for minor procedures like colonoscopies so that patients won't remember pain and discomfort. However, that does not mean that those sensations will not be experienced.

A person who is under the influence of Versed can function, and can even carry on a conversation, but will remember nothing once the drug wears off. Because of these qualities it is used on the street as a date-rape drug.

Why be concerned about Versed?

If you are a person who, like us, wishes to be involved in your medical care, want to interact with your treatment providers, and want to be as aware and alert as possible during procedures, then you will want to be aware of this commonly-used drug.

Our point in writing this is not to say that one should not be anesthetized for certain procedures, or that Versed should not be an option, but rather that:

  • One should be given a complete description of what is going to be done to them - at whatever level of detail the he or she desires. If Versed (conscious sedation) is to be used, the patient should be aware of the amnesia that will result.
  • If it is at all possible, the patient should have a choice about being awake for any procedure or part thereof. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be awake because you find the procedure interesting, assuming you can be kept comfortable with local anesthetics and analgesics. If you are a masochist and like pain this web site is not for you.
  • Attention should be paid to the fact that some people find anesthesia very upsetting mentally, and may well prefer a few minutes of moderate physical discomfort to a longer period of mental discomfort.
  • Patients have no obligation to treat doctors, nurses, anesthesiologists etc. as if they are God, or sit at his/ her right hand.
  • There is nothing wrong with telling any of the above that you are unhappy with their performance.
  • The use of Versed can open the door to abuse. If there is mis-handling of the patient during procedures, excessive roughness, etc., the patient will have no memory.

Versed is being used more and more routinely as hospital operating rooms become busier and busier. The use of Versed allows them to used less anesthesia in some cases and can save the hospital time.

But for the patient who goes to surgery expecting to be alert and wakes up afterward with a huge gap in memory, it can be hell. The brain struggles mightily to put something into that missing slot, and the knowledge that your memory has been taken from you can lead to anxiety and depression, and a feeling of being violated.

Even if the worst thing that happens to you is the doctor changes personality after they wheel you away from your family, you would want to remember it. Having a bad experience blocked from long term memory is not the same as never having had the experience in the first place. The bar simply must be higher than this.

There are accounts of people under the influence of Versed struggling against the procedure and feeling like they had been physically violated, (see http://www.askapatient.com/viewrating.asp?drug=18654&name=VERSED).

In addition to the 'lost time' during the period that the drug is administered, permanent memory losses can occur, (see Mary's personal account, below).

What can you do?

Watch out for these words!

  • "I am giving you something to relax you." If they are talking Versed, don't think you will just be groggy - you will have no memory. Versed takes two to three minutes to take effect. You won't feel much at first then suddenly you will just have time to realize you have been lied to. If this doesn't bother you stop reading now. If it does keep on.
  • "You will be awake, but won't remember anything." True in a technical sense, but from the patient's point of view you are mentally gone. If you are the type of person who likes to know what is happening you will be very distressed.
  • "You will be given Conscious Sedation." See the previous entry.
  • "You will be in la-la land." How you can be anywhere you don't remember beats us! La-la land would be more like having a large dose of pain killers - you would be awake but not care. With Versed you will be functional but won't remember a thing.
  • Beware of Mr. Most People Surgery is something which, thankfully, most of us do not experience often, so it is an important life event. You don't want to have someone else's surgery - you want it done the way you want. If you want to be out cold that is fine, if you don't that is fine too---as long as you can be kept comfortable, and you don't compromise the work being done.
  • You are not a Doctor And guess what? He/she is not you! Respect is a two-way street.

Insist on answers

  • Remember that anesthesiologists are not employees of the hospital, but they have no problem hiding behind hospital rules when there is a problem.
  • Keep in mind that they are working for you, so ultimately YOU are the boss. Most of them will not volunteer anything, so you must be prepared to ask them very specific questions, and be very assertive. A patient advocate, who can be a caring friend or relative, should accompany you to all appointments and procedures and take notes.
  • Be sure to find out what your financial liability will be if you are not satisfied.
  • If you are dissatisfied with your treatment, you or your advocate should find the courage to say things like,"Will you take that IV? I am going home!", or, "Can you get me someone who doesn't have a problem answering questions?"

If you aren't happy - Complain, Complain, Complain

Complain first to the hospital. They may ask you to put it in writing. Do so. That way there is a record of your complaint. Then, talk to your anesthesiologist. Chances are, he/she works through a group. If the anesthesiologist does not respond, try going to the associates group.

While you cannot be abusive or combative, be direct and do not mince words. Do not be intimidated. They have a lot more obligation to be nice to you than you do to them!

Funny, if some one botches up a repair job on a car people don't seem to have any qualms about squawking loudly. Yet if we complain to a doctor or hospital we feel as if we have been bad. Yet they are working on something far more precious - YOU.

Personal Accounts

Here are the accounts of our personal experiences with Versed.

Kirt's Account:

I had bilateral hernia surgery with laparoscopy. I knew I was facing general anesthesia, but I fell hook line and sinker for the 'I am giving you something to relax you' line before the surgery.

I had what seemed like a good conversation with the anesthesiologist and was feeling like I could trust him, so I thought 'OK I will be a little groggy, but conscious until he puts me to sleep for the main event'. No mention of conscious sedation or Versed was made. Just after I reached the operating table I realized something was happening, and then my memory disappeared in a roar of static.

I awoke to discover that not only had I been put to sleep for the main event, I had even been excluded from the prep. When I later complained, I was told "Most People are very happy to wake up and have the procedure over with". Well I wasn't, I was livid, and when I was told the above I should have said "that's fine for them, but what does it have to do with me?"

It has been eight months since the surgery and I still feel taken advantage of, treated as if I was a five year-old, and yes, raped of my memory. I cannot see how a trained MD or anyone can justify the withholding of fundamental information like this. Even when I confronted him several weeks after the surgery he still tried to avoid saying I had been given Versed, until I finally said 'you gave me Versed didn't you?' I can only think that there must be a problem with this drug if they don't want to tell you they are using it.

Worse yet, the anesthesiologist's response to my questioning him was to lecture me about how I had to 'trust those who know what they are doing', and told me that I was one of those people who wanted to know everything. Personally I will never trust another anesthesiologist in my life. I wish I had said that, but I was still so shaken from my original experience that I just listened, dumbfounded.

While the surgery was technically successful I will always regard it as a failure because of the above.

Mary's account:

I went in for out-patient abdominal surgery. I had had several surgeries in the past and am not squeamish about surgery. Prior to being wheeled down to surgery, I was told that they were giving me "something to relax me." I recall getting in the chair and going part way to the OR, but that is where my memory stopped. I have no recall of meeting the surgical team, getting onto the table, etc.

When I awoke, I was very agitated and upset. I remember wondering what had happened to me, with the sense that something very bad had happened but I couldn't remember what. I had finger-mark bruises on my upper arms and several other, larger bruises elsewhere. My neck hurt so bad that I was unable to turn my head for 24 hours.

I was extremely distressed that the hospital had not told me about the effects of versed and experienced severe anxiety for months about the memory gap. I had to go to counseling and was put on an anti-anxiety medication.

When I complained to the hospital, I was patronized and treated like a little kid. I did not feel as if they took me seriously.

Weeks later, I went to use my instant cash card, put it into the machine, and went to enter the PIN number, when I realized, much to my shock, that I had absolutely no idea of what the number was. I had used the same PIN for years. It never did come back. No doubt there are other 'lost' things, but I haven't recognized what they are.

Tim's Account:

Tim's Account:

I had bilateral hernia repair in September of 2004. The original plan was to use MAC ("Monitored Anesthetic Care"). The anesthesiologist did not explain the effects of Versed and did not explain that the MAC would be initiated in the holding area before I was wheeled to the OR.

The drug was not named. I was only told that from my perspective, the experience would seem like general anesthesia. I have had numerous operations in the past and my experience led me to assume that the main event would occur in the OR. The anesthesiologist introduced the Versed into the IV while I was still in the holding area. I asked what it was and the reply was simply "benzodiazepines."

After surgery I was told that I had a bad reaction to the Versed so they ended up putting me under. The nurse in the PACU said that my legs were shaking and this is why they used general anesthesia.

The surgeon's report stated that I was moving my extremities and would not be still. I was also told that I was unable to follow instructions. This is disturbing since I am not squeamish about surgery nor have I ever been out of control like this.

When I later spoke with my anesthesiologist, she used a lot of euphemistic baby talk, describing the amnesia as "making you forgetful" and describing the general anesthesia as "we had to make you more sleepy".

I have other concerns about Versed:

*Abuse or mistreatment of patients:

It should be obvious that if they are giving people amnesia, then this amounts to a date-rape drug that opens the doors to abuse. Even if the worst thing that happens to you is the doctor changes personality after they wheel you away from your family, you would want to remember it. To me, having a bad experience blocked from my long term memory is not the same as never having the experience in the first place. The bar simply must be higher than this.

Versed is a convenience for doctors who are rude, rough, or in a hurry to complete a procedure. If you have amnesia, then obviously you will never know to complain.

*Versed induces nightmarish states:

There are accounts of people under the influence of Versed struggling against the procedure and feeling like they had been physically violated, or experiencing what seemed like a nightmare but actually was a distorted version of their procedure (see http://www.askapatient.com/viewrating.asp?drug=18654&name=VERSED).

There are numerous reports of people being suspended in a nightmare like state where they lose touch with where they are and what is really going on but they are aware enough to be frightened.

There is a classic example on www.askapatient.com where a woman undergoing a colonoscopy thought she was being raped. She also describes a sense of abandonment which is also a common feature of bad Versed experiences.

Although I cannot recall anything, I strongly suspect that I had a similar experience when I was under Versed. I was given Versed two minutes before being wheeled to the OR. All that the PACU staff would admit to me is that my legs started shaking - so they put me under.

*Amnesia beyond the day of surgery:

I am an electrical engineer and I had been at my job for three months when I had my surgery. In the weeks after my return to work, I found that I had no recall of certain details of my job. We are very procedure and detail oriented. I found that certain blocks of information seemed to have simply disappeared from my long term memory.

I wonder what else I have forgotten?

292 Comments:

Blogger Peter said...

I was dissatisfied with Versed being adminsistered to me without disclosure of its amnesia effects, for my out-patient surgery in 2004.

The anesthesiologist did not inform me that Versed would cause amnesia. He said to me, "You wouldn't want to rember the surgery because it's frightening." I replied to him, "The surgery won't bother me." Then without informing me that I wopuld be given Versed the anesthesiologist simply said to the nurse, "Versed" and she replied to him "yes." After the Versed was adminiustered the nurse said to me, "You won't remember what you're saying." She was right.

It was wrong to adminster the Versed to me because I explictly told the anesthesiologist that the prospective memory of the surgery would not bother me, and by his actions he gave me no choice about his adminsitration of this amnesia causing drug.

As long as I am not in physical pain from a given medical procedure (which can be accomplished with by anesthesia), I do not want to be drugged into amnesia about the procedure.

I feel my privacy was violated because as a result of the Versed I was having converations for whcih I have no recall.

Peter

Thu Dec 22, 01:49:00 PM EST

 
Blogger -Tim said...

Peter:

Thanks for your input.

It occurs to me that we need to get lawyers and sympathetic medical professionals involved.

I will never have another procedure without speaking to the anesthesiologist in advance, and I will not work with them if they do not agree to cooperate.

I am disturbed by the pattern that is emerging around how versed is used. You have a right to choose.

Peter, these people were outright abusive. I would call some lawyers and see what they have to say.

-Tim

Fri Dec 23, 09:36:00 AM EST

 
Blogger Kirt said...

Peter,

Well, join the club - next time I keep my hand on the IV tube, ready to pinch it if need be (I'm serious).

I am curious about two things if you don't mind sharing - what were you having done, and in what general area of the country are you located?

Did you complain to the hospital or the surgeon after? If so what response did you get?

The worst part for me, was that I knew what Versed was, and they got it into me by lying - 'something to relax you'.

Fri Dec 23, 08:08:00 PM EST

 
Anonymous Gus said...

I am a 65-year-old man. In October 2005, I had two procedures; both involving Versed. The first was a routine colonoscopy. I was told by a nurse (not the one involved in the procedure) that if I wanted to remember the procedure I could refuse Versed, which I did, assuming otherwise I would be asleep. I am well educated and curious and wanted to see the "movie". It turned-out to be a fascinating experience: saw the doctor remove three polyps, had only moderate discomfort and able to ask the gastroenterologist questions during the procedure. Two weeks later I had a serious surgical procedure: removal of a pituitary tumor. This was my first operation requiring general anesthesia. Minutes before being prepared for surgery, I met the anesthesiologist for the first time. He said he would give me something to relax me, never being told that the drug would cause complete amnesia from that moment until I woke up hours later. What was even worse was when I found out that I would be conscious and not remembering what I said or did until they gave me general anesthesia. I had assumed I would be conscious and than unconscious (so much for assumptions!) While it is true that some people, perhaps the majority, prefer this treatment, I do not. I think there is something unethical with doctors not explaining the use and effects of Versed, which I later found out, was given to me. Up to that point, I had never taken a tranquilizer-like drug in my life and resent having my brain and subconscious fooled with. When I asked one of my doctors what I said or did during this "conscious sedation", he said, "I was not funny". Following surgery, I had a very large bruise on my ankle and since this was a head operation, \I asked the neurosurgeon about it. He said it was probably for anesthesia: his explanation sounded strange to me, but what could I say since I don’t remember anything. While the operation appears to have been a success, two months later I am still feeling the effects of Versed: changes in breathing and a peculiar kind of anxiety, and God knows what else. Perhaps the surgeons, nurses, and other doctors in the operating room don’t want to be bothered with patients asking questions or having them being aware of what’s going on before general anesthesia. I think the patient should have the choice about taking this drug. Perhaps it should be unlawful to administer these kinds of drugs without the full knowledge and permission of the patient. If I ever need another operation, which I pray I never do, I will make it very clear that I not want this kind of drug and hope they listen.

Sat Dec 24, 12:12:00 PM EST

 
Blogger Kirt said...

Gus,

I also had a routine colonoscopy without sedation (except for low dose of demarol) and found the experience to be positive. Like you (I am an electrical engineer) like knowing what is going on, and will gladly trade some discomfort for knowledge.

Also much like you a couple weeks after the colonoscopy I had surgery requiring General Anesthesia (bilateral hernia done via laparoscopy). My experience parallels yours to an uncanny degree. I won't repeat all here, as I have already posted it.

All I can say is that a lot of peopel almost faint when I mention the colonoscopy. Well that was one hell of a lt easier than being put to sleep.

Mon Dec 26, 09:45:00 PM EST

 
Anonymous jwb said...

I just got finished with abdominal surgery myself and Versed was used. I must say the experience was completely positive -- I asked a bunch of questions about the drugs that I was going to be administered, and what their effects would be. That was eight hours ago and now I'm a little groggy, but my short-term memory is working correctly (I think). I am happy with the effect, but, unlike you people, I was fully informed as to the drugs I would be receiving and their effects. It sounds like you good people did not receive similar treatment from your providers. I'm very sorry to hear that. I hope that you are able to find health providers in the future that you can trust more.

Tue Jan 03, 10:02:00 PM EST

 
Blogger -Tim said...

JWB:

I'm glad your anesthesia seems to have worked well for you and they appear to have been completely honest with you.

What disturbs me is that there is a big drive to use Versed and also a big drive to be deceitful about it.

I think that they know damn good and well that people do not like the "A" word - "amnesia". This is usually associated with old age, head trauma and other bad things. I don't expect anyone to ask a patient if they'd like some amnesia with their surgery.

I think they know damn good and well that if they properly described versed and it's effects, admitting that "this drug will produce profound anterograde amnesia. You will be aware during your operation but won't be able to remember anything" a lot of people would call them on it immediately. If they had been this up front with me, I would have refused such a drug, even if it meant cancelling the surgery.

As Gus said, I find the way I was treated to be unethical and I resent having my brain and memory fooled with.

Wed Jan 04, 11:18:00 AM EST

 
Anonymous Darlene M. Caban said...

My complaint about Versed was that it DID NOT WORK on me!

I had a cardiac cath on Jan. 6, and I needed 5 doses of it, plus the pre-op Valium, just to get through the 30-minute procedure-- and I remember yelling "Ow! Ow! Ow!" at least twice-- once when the cath was inserted, and once when the femoral plug was being put in. After all that Versed, they expected me to sleep for 4 or 5 hours-- and I was awake after 2 hours, and having a conversation with the heart surgeon, who had come into my room just to observe me-- he never expected me to wake up and rationally discuss the situation! My cardiologist came in and he, too, was stunned to see me awake and talking.

If those people think they're using Versed on me with the mitral valve replacement surgery I'm having on Jan. 25, they're out of their cotton-pickin' minds! I am going to report the problem with Versed to my nephrologist (I'm a dialysis patient) and have Versed added to the list of drugs that don't work on Dar!

--Darlene Caban

marsenvoy14@aol.com

Tue Jan 10, 09:58:00 AM EST

 
Blogger michelle said...

I've received Versed twice. Once 4 years ago for a D&C after a miscarriage. I asked to not have general anesthesia, my doctor agreed to sedation. No one explained that they were going to cause amnesia. I have PTSD after years of child abuse, and was left in an incredible amount of mental pain. I stopped eating for 8 weeks, lost 40 pounds, couldn't sleep, all over the fact, that I was concious and cooperated w/ a group of people that I didn't know and wouldn't remember. I couldn't convince myself that nothing bad happened. No one fully explained what sedation meant.

I had sinus surgery in December. I understood that I had to have general anesthesia. I fought the entire pre-op time trying to find out what was going to happen, but no one had time to talk to me. The anesthesiologist came in and quite evidently didn't want to talk to me. He finally said he'd give me a sedative prior to going back to the OR - once again it was versed. I had expected to be able to see the OR, to see the people involved in my care and didn't. I later found out the dr. I talked to wasn't the one who administered the drugs, my mouth was black and blue from the LMA - I had numerous abrasions and cuts on the inside of my jaws and the roof of my mouth. Both arms were bruised.

I am not a child and expect to be fully informed - again, I can't get past the thought that the reason they wanted to make me forget is because something bad happened. Intellectually, I understand that's not probable, but I feel differently.

I would have adamantly refused versed if I had been fully informed.

Personally, I feel that I was violated - not much different than being molested as a child.

Michelle

Thu Jan 26, 11:58:00 PM EST

 
Blogger -Tim said...

Michelle:

Once again, we see the clear and obvious pattern of them willfully avoiding explaining the amnesia that versed causes.
It is bad enough that some people in the medical community callously and arrogantly treat people this way. Now you come along, especially vulnerable with PTSD, and have to endure this mistreatment. Great. Just great.

Michelle, *I* can't convince myself that nothing bad happened to you either. Your feelings are logical and normal. The abrasions and bruises you describe are likely evidence of mistreatment, or at least rough handling. The truth is, some people freak out on Versed (I suspect that I did) and a bad medical crew (one that is poorly trained or just doesn't give a damn) is likely to just get impatient and take it out on you.

The anesthesiologist "quite evidently" not wanting to talk with you is a major red flag. That was time to get your dander up.
In the future I will always bring my wife with me to surgery. She is well briefed on all of these issues and knows what I want out of the experience. She takes notes and I think my anesthesiologist was a bit surprised and looked a bit nervous when my wife wrote down her name. Between the two of us we will ask questions and press them if needed.

In the future I plan to speak with anesthesiology a day or more before surgery. I will TELL them how I want things done. I will explain my knowledge and experience with all of this and let them know I am not a person to be screwed with. If I get a bad vibe, I will look elsewhere.

For my hernia repair, I did not use the first surgeon I interviewed. I got a bad vibe and went elsewhere. Obviously, I will never use the anesthesiologist again.

We are all used to the pre-Versed days where there was none of this amnesia B.S. and we expect to recall the operating room - especially if we are not put under for the procedure. I had two hand surgeries in the '80's under local - my experience was fine. During the second surgery, PER MY REQUEST, they did not even administer Fentanyl until I mentioned I could feel some pain.

For whatever reason(s), they really seem hot to use Versed on us. I think they rely on people either having no surgical experience to begin with or they have expectations based on the pre-Versed world. It really gets my attention that they are both eager to use Versed and also be very deceptive about it.

Obviously, some of these medical folks don't give a damn what we want or how we feel about it.

Also odd that the doctor you I talked to wasn't the one who administered the drugs.

I also can't get past the thought that the reason they want to make people forget is in case something bad happens. And I think it is common for people to freak out or whatever and it is easier for these lazy, inconsiderate jerks to block your memory so that the can then treat you any way they want to. This Versed business smells like a kettle of fish.

I am in total agreement with you that we are not children, we should be completely informed, I feel violated, and I will also adamantly refuse Versed (and anything like it).

I suggest you speak with an attorney. Also, COMPLAIN to as many relevant people as you can. Let the hospital, etc. know how you feel. Write up the doctor(s) on www.ratemds.com.

Fri Jan 27, 08:54:00 AM EST

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My 18-year-old daughter was given Versed yesterday, along with Decadron and Valium, to manage the extraction of her 4 wisdom teeth. The dentist did not bother to share the details of the drug cocktail in advance (and I didn't think to ask as I was told she was just being given 'mild sedation'), nor warn us of potential adverse reactions.

30 mins. after the procedure, she awoke completely hysterical -- uncontrollable crying and screaming/yelling. This continued for four hours. She tnen became suicidal -- she scratched her wrists completely raw and went stumbling out of the house with scissors in her hands (which we fortunately were able to remove). She stumbled around the neighbourhood for an hour trying to run in front of moving cars(with us following on foot and by car) and returned home to collapse. She tnen became exceptionally angry and would not allow anyone near her or touching her. She refused to allow us to take her to hospital emergency.

The recommendation of our family doctor was that we either monitor her "day and night" for 24 hours or call the police to come with a straighjacket and admit her to a psychiatric facility. We chose to monitor her due to the potential trauma of option B.

Following all of the above, she fell asleep for an hour.

On awaking, she had no memory of what had taken place for the entire day. No memory of having clawed herself, no memory of being at the dentist, etc. While the hysteria had subsided, she was exceptionally emotional and continues to be this way 24 hours later.

I spent considerable time today researching the adverse reactions of this incredibly nasty drug. I personally think it should be banned. It is close to being criminal that it would be administered to a child with no warnings to the parents or patient about the potential adverse reaction. I am appaled but want to thank you and others who have taken time to share their stories and to shed light on such a vile drug.

Tue Jun 13, 10:11:00 PM EDT

 
Blogger -Tim said...

Thanks for your input.

I too would like to see this drug banned. It is obviously unpredictable and is unstable enough that a good many people have severe reactions to it.

They should not be using drugs that affect memory. Versed is supposed to be short acting, but obviously it lasts a long time with some people.

It is odd and disturbing that they are so eager to use Versed and they are so sneaky about it.

I would speak with a few lawyers and other doctors. I'd really try to stick it to this dentist if I were you.

Wed Jun 14, 10:11:00 AM EDT

 
Anonymous kirt said...

I can't believe that the dentist allowed your daughter to leave his office in the condition you describe. They probably shoudl have called 911. I also wonder about mixing Versed and Vallium.

Wed Jun 14, 07:34:00 PM EDT

 
Blogger Jackie said...

I too was victimized by the non judicious application of Versed. I knew nothing about this drug, my last surgeries were in the 1980's. I did wonder why the anesthesiologist didn't call me the night before. When I called the hospital, they said he would see me before the surgery. Odd. Well he and his male nurse did show up minutes before show time and gave me something called "Vitamin V." The reason I wanted to talk to the anesthesiologist so badly is that I can't stand a loss of control, so no General Anesthetic. I explained the problem to them so they promptly gave me something much MUCH worse. Versed. At least with the general you are not awake and talking. It turned me into a compliant zombie without a will of my own no matter how much I fought the drug. It was a real life night mare where I was trying to stop them and was completely helpless to do anything other than what they ordered me to do. They did not ask if I wanted this, they did not describe the drug except as a "muscle relaxant" They did not even name the drug. I had to go down to the hospital and demand the names of the drugs they used. Even then it was not listed on the MEDS sheet, it was handwritten in tiny letters at the bottom of one of the pages. Those dirty so and so's destroyed the sanctity of my person with impunity. I may never get over this assault. At least with a rapist you can talk to sympathetic police who will try to catch him and send him to jail... Where do you go with a medical attack?

Sun Jul 09, 03:45:00 PM EDT

 
Blogger Jackie said...

By the way, the reason I was in the hospital was for a BROKEN ARM! Big deal. I wanted to stay awake and watch the surgery, just as I was allowed to do in the 80's. Now I am ruined. It's been 7 weeks and I just keep getting more and more angry with each person who was involved in this disaster. The hospital staff, the nurse, the doctors, etc., just tell me that they know best and I should get over it and get on with my life. Quit obsessing over them tampering with my mind. I wonder how much longer I can go to work. My gp wants me to take Prozac, but can I trust that THIS drug won't do things to my brain. Why should I have to pay for drugs and therapy just to recover from 2 hours of loving "care" from the hospital?

Sun Jul 09, 03:58:00 PM EDT

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi There

It sounds like you went in for a procedure with different expectations, and were perhaps not informed as to what was going on.

My experience with Versed was great. However, I went in knowing what it was AND my nurses/doctor were very upfront with everything they were doing the entire time. I was given a cocktail of Demerol/Versed/Benadryl for an upper GI procedure. I can remember being quite warm and comfortable after meds were injected into my IV. I remember the doctor walking in and saying "he looks very aware" (I think that is when the Benadryl was added).

I was very nervous about the procedure and drugs, as I had not even ever had an IV. It all went great. Other than not remembering much of the procedure, and telling the nurses I was a Jedi knight and had hidden pirate treasure, it was great.

As with any procedure it all comes down to the doctor/patient relationship.

Thu Jul 13, 11:11:00 PM EDT

 
Blogger -Tim said...

Those of us who are complaining - mad as hell even - have experienced some combination of being lied to (one way or another), treated like a kid (or worse) and generally getting an attitude from unprofessional, uncaring, arrogant and self-centered practitioners. Kirt here is concerned with how versed is being used and the consistent deception that accompanies versed use. I go further and insist that it is a dangerous, unpredictable, unreliable drug that probably should *never* be used. The eagerness to use it far more than merely disturbs me. What the hell are they teaching people in anesthesiology school? To just assume people accept their memory being blocked is stupid at best and arrogant and self serving at worst.

Fri Jul 14, 09:12:00 AM EDT

 
Anonymous jackie said...

I think Anonymous could be the key reason that the doctors are willing to jeopardize the rest of us, and their almost desperate zeal to give this drug. I resent the medical staff trying to use me as the cheap entertainment. It took me 2 months to get over the rage and obsession over Versed. I am still very VERY angry, but I don't think I will snap now and end up in a mental hospital. This drug whould be banned. I can't figure out why the mental disintigration has not been listed in their side effects or contra-indications for this drug.

Sat Jul 15, 08:27:00 AM EDT

 
Anonymous Jackie said...

Please report you adverse reactions to www.fda.gov/medwatch/ this is the only way we are going to stop this.

Mon Jul 17, 10:10:00 PM EDT

 
Anonymous jackie said...

I have had no luck whatsoever at finding an attorney to take my case. I need to have the sloppily installed hardware taken out of my arm, but have panic attacks at the mere thought of going through the nightmare that Versed caused the last time. Since I told the anesthesia nurse to leave me awake and alert and he gave me Versed, and since I told the anesthesiologist not to give me a general anesthetic and he gave me one, baby minutes after they got me into the OR, I am absolutely scared spitless to go to the hospital again. If you are an attorney reading this please contact me at jmurraytruckin at aol.com if you can help.

Sat Sep 02, 07:18:00 PM EDT

 
Anonymous John said...

I noted that virtually all comments are by the patient. This time it will be by her spouse.

On March 14, 2006, my wife under went an EGD procedure. The Doctor used a powerful sedative, VERSED. She was released to me still under the effect of this drug. VERSED causes a dense amnesia which blocks all memory of the procedure.
During the first 2 – 3 weeks following she had trouble finding new locations from typical directions. If she had been there previously then she could find it again. Not so with a new address. IE: her cognitive skills had been damaged. Not just her short term memory. This appears to be the result of Encephalopathy Hypoxia

Hypoxia: Starved for oxygen
Encephalopathy: Generalized (i.e., not localized) brain dysfunction marked by varying degrees of impairment of speech, cognition, orientation, and arousal. In mild instances, brain dysfunction may be evident only during specialized neuropsychiatric testing; in severe instances (e.g., the last stages of hepatic encephalopathy), the patient may be unresponsive even to unpleasant stimuli
The VERSED caused total amnesia lasted for several hours after reaching home. She did not know her husband’s name, for example. This is quite contrary to advice from the endoscopy center.

From the anecdotal info on the internet, there are hundreds (maybe tens of thousands) that have had adverse experiences with VERSED. It appears Karen went into respiratory arrest due to a 400% plus overdose and Cranial Hypoxia occurred. This the diagnosis of two neurologists in two States.

The death rate is one per 3300 EGD procedures. When this procedure is performed in a hospital setting with an anesthesiologist present the mortality rate drops to one in 250,000 procedures. Clearly, the stand alone surgical-center for endoscopy / colonoscopy procedures are killing patients. My wife narrowly escaped. But not without permanent injury to her brain. BTW I think several are mistakenly assigning memory problems to VERSED when they are actually due to brain injury. As you might not know, the practitioner has only 120 seconds before irreversible brain damage and death will occur. Some call this a code blue.

The wide spread use of VERSED by unqualified nurses is very disturbing. Doctors want to perform a procedure while you will be mostly conscious and compliant guaranteed but it can be painful and might leave mental scars. So they put you through all the pain but block your memory of the pain. This substitution of VERSED with synthetic amnesia instead of anesthetic also keeps the patient from testifying later about anything wrong because any medical errors and mistakes are also blocked from memory. Nice.

I am preparing for a legal battle. The great white wall is starting to sense it.

This unexpected total lack of recall caused Karen a great deal of anxiety for over three months. The doctor or nurse typically describes VERSED as, “We are going to give you a little something to relax you.” The dense amnesia it will cause is never discussed. The conscious sedation is not explained.

The patient is left without any idea what just happened to him/her. The errors of the physician can not be contested by a patient with dense amnesia about the total procedure. Also, patients are not aware that if they do survive the procedure without injury, their recall of the procedure will still be non-existent.

Karen awoke not expecting such a total loss of recall. It has made some PTs anxious and to have profound worries about their sanity. Some patients have required extensive (and expensive) psycho therapy and counseling.

In Karen’s case she worried that the VERSED had set off a chain of organic events that would end with an Alzheimer’s Disease diagnosis. I have never seen her so anxious. When she found out VERSED was also a Date-Rape drug she was really worried.

"I could have been raped while in the recovery room and have no recall."

Fot some reason unknown to me, I was barred the recovery room.

Never-the-less, I strongly suspect that the good doctor was working hard to resuscitate Karen and save her life. Brain damage was not in his mind at that moment.

I also suspect that is why he was so short and anxious when he did get to the consultation room.

So, if you or your spouse are having short term memory problems see a good neurologist and ask about a mini-mental test. You might be shocked. Don't blame yourself or spouse as,"You are just having a bad reaction to the drugs used."

Fully 1/3 of all Cranial Hypoxia cases are due to mistakes in anesthesia. (VERSED)

Be certain to read up on HIPPA. I have used it to secure damning information as I prepare for a battle.

Sun Oct 01, 09:33:00 PM EDT

 
Anonymous Jackie said...

I actually do remember all that happened to me AFTER they tried to give me amnesia with Versed. However, the medical staff argued with me and put forth THEIR version of events. That is when I learned of the attempt at amnesia. They said and I quote "You can't possibly know what we did to you because we gave you something to give you amnesia!" I was absolutely STUNNED that they would first give me a drug like that and secondly LIE to me about what happened to me under their "care." I was COMPLETELY compliant with whatever they wanted to do with me, regardless of the amnesia not working. If they had told me to kill myself I would have done so. I had absolutely no will power which was extremely upsetting. So upsetting was the powerlessness that it caused PTSD etc. that I have previously discussed. I also suffer from nightmares involving loss of control. This is such a bad drug I can't believe that the FDA allows its use, even on children. Your wife has every reason to feel the way whe does.

Sun Oct 15, 03:26:00 PM EDT

 
Anonymous Ron Kelly said...

I had prostate surgery (TURP) 12-2-2002. I had no idea what Versed was or what it would do, etc. I did know they didn't want me to have regular anasthesia for fear I would vomit during recovery. They most certainly did not want that because it would aggravate internal bleeding. So, the Versed was used. Mentally I equated it with an anesthesia that wouldn't cause vomiting and that was it.
I was in recovery for about 5 hours because of internal bleeding and I went hypothermic. I can remember events in recovery okay, but the problem started after I got into my room. I carried on lengthy conversations, did and said things that I totally cannot recall, no matter how hard I try.
Several years ago I suffered temporary amnesia from a blow to the head. I lost memory of events occuring in the hospital for a couple of weeks, but I DID regain that memory. With the Versed memory loss, I never did regain the memory, and that was 4 years ago.
I had to have a repeat prostate surgery in just 4 months, 4-1-2003. That time I simply wrote "NO VERSED" on my permission slip at the doc's office before the surgery. I had no hassle from anyone. My doc is a great guy and went along fine with it. That surgery was great, if you can call any surgery great. I knew everything that was going on- no pain because I'd had a spinal- was able to talk with the doc when he was finished and can remember even what the operating room looked like.
Then about 2 years ago, maybe less, I had a colonoscopy. Again I wrote "NO VERSED". That doc didn't like that at all and called me personally to tell me so. I went in to see him and told him I'd already had the TURP with no Versed and made out fine, so he agreed. I did suffer a lot of pain during the colonoscopy because he couldn't get through the colon, but at least I can remember it! What was better yet was that I was on my feet almost immediately walking around, chatting with the nurses and a nun in the hallway, and did not have to lay around in a haze after I got home. My wife just had one and was in a haze all day long.
As for me? NO THANKS! NO VERSED FOR ME! I have enough memory problems without adding to it.
I have to admit that nearly everyone I talk to, even nurses, absolutely love having Versed. They look at it like a joy ride. That's fine. I don't like having blank spots in my memory and don't want anymore of anything that promotes it.

Sincerely,
Ron K.

Sat Mar 03, 08:09:00 AM EST

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, one more story on Versed. I was given this drug during foot surgery in an ambulatory surgical suite. Surgery was at 2:00 p.m., but I was unable to leave until 9:00 p.m. I woke up screaming, fighting, trying to jump off the gurney. I was going in and out--sometimes aware--sometimes not. I remember trying to punch out a nurse, trying to bite someone, etc. When I finally became somewhat rational, I had been tied to a chair; my elbow was skinned, etc. The effects continued for about 10 days, headaches, dizziness, disorientation. This is absolutely the worst drug I have ever encountered. If the goal was a speedy recovery, it had the opposite effect---I needed their attention for hours! It is a miracle that the surgery was a success!

Sat Mar 03, 10:37:00 PM EST

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i was given versed for and endoscope/colonoscopy. I had NO anxiety prior to the procedure but have been extremely disturbed by the amnesia it caused and an angry this effect was not explained to me. As a layperson, 'consious sedation' does not mean 'amnesia' so where was my informed consent. I have lost so much faith in the medical care system over this i think i always will be anxious in the future. i will NEVER allow these drugs again.

John

Sat Mar 10, 01:16:00 PM EST

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was given versed for a colonoscopy two months ago. I can't get the anger and depression out of my head. I must have another colonoscopy in a year and except for saying "no" to the versed,I don't know what to ask for instead. I don't want the pain but I certainly want to be relaxed and unafraid but especially awake.

Sun Mar 11, 01:39:00 AM EST

 
Blogger -Tim said...

Anonymous said:

"If the goal was a speedy recovery, it had the opposite effect---I needed their attention for hours! It is a miracle that the surgery was a success!"

Anonymous said:

"I had NO anxiety prior to the procedure but have been extremely disturbed by the amnesia it caused..."

The folks who push Versed seem to have not heard the saying "If it ain't broke don't fix it!"

John said:

"... angry this effect was not explained to me. As a layperson, 'consious sedation' does not mean 'amnesia' so where was my informed consent."

I am amazed at the pattern of sneakiness involved with pushing Versed on people. I agree with you that your doctor used double-talk to rob you of your "informed consent." Same thing happened to me. "Angry" only begins to describe my feelings.

Anonymous said:

"I have lost so much faith in the medical care system over this i think i always will be anxious in the future. I will NEVER allow these drugs again."

Same here. How can we have faith in proven liars?

Mon Mar 12, 02:19:00 PM EDT

 
Blogger Erica said...

I never wanted to know what occured during my surgeries. My medical condition was less than pleasant, and I only cared that the problem was rectified. However, the lasting effects of Versed have caused me to reevaluate my thoughts. What are left of them, that is.
In 1999-2000, I was an award winning Sr. site manager for the world's largest management company. Then, I had 10 surgeries, 8 of which were done using Versed. Suddenly, I was extremely anxious and even asked to be demoted because I could no longer manage two sites. I had no idea why the work that had once been so easy was suddenly impossible for me to complete. I could not focus on routine tasks and became easily irritated and excessively distracted. Over time it became apparent that certain memories were simply gone.
In 2003, I left my employment to move with my husband. I thought that being a stay at home mother would be easier, and it was for a time. Yet, over the last four years, the problems have gotten worse, not better. It may be because I have time to try to reflect on my life and some fairly large pieces are missing. I agree that these missing memories cause anxiety. Sadly, it's not just memories from the time of the sugeries that have been erased. I do not remember the first year of my daughter's life. My husband finds it hilarious when I think that one of our children has done something for the first time and it turns out it is the third or fourth time. I simply don't remember. I don't remember large parts of high school and college. I don't remember much of my childhood. I can handle that fairly well. What I cannot handle is my distractablilty and irritablility. I seem to get into a rage at times and then become extemely sad and withdrawn afterwards. I live in fear that I will hurt one of my precious children. In researching these issues, I have found that I have all of the symptoms of temporal lobe ADD, and I have an appt. to see a doctor this week. I know that Versed played a role in my problems since they were not present prior to the surgeries.
Recently, I learned that Versed was administered to my daughter prior to some dental work last year. Luckily, I haven't seen any lasting effects, but I warn all parents to force the dentists to tell you exactly what they are giving your child.
In closing, I would like to thank Tim and Jackie for contacting me after I posted on another site. Knowing that others have had the same experiences at least gives me some sense of peace.

Tue Mar 13, 10:15:00 PM EDT

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tim,

Since leaving my original comment a few days ago, I have done a little more web research on unsedated endoscopy and colonoscopy. What I have found has only increased my anger at the 'informed consent' procedure that I received. I now know that studies comparing sedated versus unsedated procedure indicate that the majority of people who have the procedure performed unsedated say they would do it again that way.

Audit of sedated versus unsedated gastroscopy: Do patients notice a difference?

Jonathan Peter Watson, 1*MA, MBBCh, MRCP, PhD, FRACP, Carmel Goss, 2RN, Grant Phelps, 2MBBS, FRACP

Abstract Unsedated diagnostic gastroscopy has become widely accepted as a diagnostic procedure which avoids the risk of an anaesthetic... Patient tolerance was analyzed in various categories including degree of comfort, degree of pain, ease of breathing and willingness to repeat the procedure under the same conditions. The perceived comfort rating was compared between the patient, the endoscopist and the endoscopy nurse. A total of 100 consecutive patients were evaluated; 55 chose to be sedated and 45 were unsedated. Of the 100 patients tested, 88% stated they would have the procedure the same way if a repeat procedure was required. There was no significant difference between male/female or sedated/unsedated patients. The most important consideration for patients who chose to have the procedure unsedated was the ability to speak to the endoscopist immediately post-procedure. Patient rating of pain was not significantly different between the sedated and unsedated groups. There was no significant difference in the independent assessment by the endoscopist and the nurse with respect to patient comfort in both the sedated and the unsedated groups. However, their assessment differed significantly from the patients own rating, as endoscopists and gastrointestinal (GI) nurses rated the patient degree of comfort as higher than the patients themselves (P< 0.01 for doctor/patient and nurse/patient score, Student's t-test). No complications were reported in either group of patients during the audit. Unsedated diagnostic gastroscopy is perceived to be an acceptable alternative to a sedated procedure by the majority of patients. Patients rate the procedure as more uncomfortable than their health care professionals, but the majority of patients would still have the repeat procedure the same way.

Another article describing unsedated colonoscopy found here:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BJI/is_3_31/ai_71632710 says

Colonoscopy without sedation should be considered the new standard approach to the procedure, Dr. Joseph G. White maintained at the annual meeting of the American College of Gastroenterology.

The success rate is high, and most patients accept--even prefer--not being sedated. Eliminating sedation also speeds up the procedure and saves money by reducing recovery room time. It also spares patients the risks associated with sedation, said Dr. White of the Scott & White Clinic, Temple, Tex.

I have also obtained Versed product info from American Pharmaceutical Partners, Inc. It states in the section titled "Information for Patients' that "patients should be informed of the pharmacological effects of midazolam, such as sedation and amnesia, which in some patients may be profound."

I have requested a copy of my patient consent form from the place where i had my procedures performed. I have not received them at this time but am quite sure I was not informed of the potential for amnesia.

At this point I am very interested in knowing why I was not informed that the unsedated procedure was an option. I almost believe that sedation is used since they can charge more for the procedure - and most patients don't care because it is just being billed to an insurance company.

Finally, I want to also mention that while my memory of the procedure was limited, I do recall crying out in pain during the colonoscopy. This really bothers me since I know they did give me any pain medication during the procedure. I feel as if i had been chemically handcuffed by the Versed in lieu of appropriate pain medication and/or the procedure was done in a manner that they would not have done if they knew I was fully aware.

Damn I am still so angry about this. Thanks for having this blog and letting me vent my feelings.

John

Wed Mar 14, 12:09:00 PM EDT

 
Anonymous Jackie said...

I check back with this site frequently as Tim has become a cyber friend. To all of you who have had this experience with the Versed, isn't it ODD that we all can describe the same exact mental reactions to this chemical? As I read the posts of others and re read my own I can see a pattern in the disruption of our mental processes. Anger, anxiety and obsession are at the top of the list, which is really bad for those of us who previously could be described as normal. It is disconcerting to suddenly have mental problems. For John, I never signed an informed consent, just the general consent to treat. ( in violation of Federal law!) What I was telling the staff I found acceptable was so completely opposed to what THEY wanted that they decided just to go ahead without my informed consent, (which I would NEVER HAVE GIVEN) thinking that I was too stupid to notice. Since I am "just a truck driver" and they are trained medical professionals, they "know what's best" for me. They don't tell me how to drive my truck and I can't tell them what they can or cannot do to my person. Every single one of them to a man used this argument on me! Federal law states that we must not only be informed of the medications and effects of such, but that we may decline to proceed with the operation AT ANY TIME, even after beginning. By injecting patients with Versed these people are in effect removing our right to refuse further medical treatment. Clever isn't it? Some nice amnesia to boot and they can and do claim that they had your complete consent, you just don't remember giving it! It is my belief that the medical professionals look at Versed as a double whammy. They can not only charge about 4 times as much, but they get the added benefit of an unconscious, compliant patient. I don't give a damn about the "conscious sedation" crap, you are unconscious. The phrase "psychotic fugue state" is a more appropriate phrase. Now I have to live with several mental disorders, just because some sanctimonious, self righteous, self serving cretins in a hospital attacked me with Versed! Erica, I went through my documents from a dentist that worked on my baby when whe was 2 and found out to my horror that they gave my innocent child this evil drug. I am having trouble coming to grips with this atrocity as well. I think to myself "what kind of mother would let their child be assaulted with this kind of drug?" I can't get it out of my mind that I allowed this to happen to my child. Please let us know how the Doctor appt. went. I am very interested if the drug damaged your brain. John's post shows that his wife had brain damage. Since all of us have the same symptoms, I would guess that we all have had some damage done to a specific part of the brain.

Wed Mar 14, 09:54:00 PM EDT

 
Anonymous Casey said...

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! I am so relieved to find I am not the only one out there angered by the medical community. I am the spouse of a colonoscopy patient that was given Versed(no choice). He had a good experience, BUT was not informed of the amnesiac affects(just something to relax you) and, in fact, cannot be certain they even did anything!!! We, too, were misled, mis-imformed, given half-truths, and outright lied to. WHY,WHY, WHY do they not fully inform? We have come to the conclusion, as have many of you, that it is solely for the staff's benefit and "follow the money"!!! We have learned much through all this: RESEARCH. BE FULLY INFORMED. DO NOT BE INTIMIDATED. ASK, ASK, ASK UNTIL YOU GET THE ANSWERS YOU NEED AND DESERVE. INSIST ON COMPLETE DISCLOSURE. DON'T BE PUT OFF. TAKE NOTES TO INCLUDE DATE, TIME AND ESPECIALLY NAME. IF AT ALL POSSIBLE, TAKE SOMEONE WITH YOU THROUGHOUT PROCEDURE(we were denied this request)TO PROTECT YOU. Further information and links to more information would be greatly appreciated.

Sat Mar 17, 12:32:00 PM EDT

 
Blogger -Tim said...

Casey said...

"THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! I am so relieved to find I am not the only one out there angered by the medical community. "

Welcome to my blog, Casey! You're welcome!

"I am the spouse of a colonoscopy patient that was given Versed(no choice). He had a good experience, BUT was not informed of the amnesiac affects(just something to relax you) . . .We, too, were misled, mis-imformed, given half-truths, and outright lied to. WHY,WHY, WHY do they not fully inform? We have come to the conclusion, as have many of you, that it is solely for the staff's benefit and "follow the money"!!!"

This is exactly the same page my wife and I are on (I had hernia repair). Welcome to the club!

"Further information and links to more information would be greatly appreciated."

Well, here is my latest collection of links:

http://www.askapatient.com/
viewrating.asp?drug=18654&name=VERSED

http://ideas.4brad.com/archives/
000100.html

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/
youropinions.php?opinionid=11517

http://www.colonoscopywarning.com/
colonoscopy/beware-the-colonoscopy/

http://www.netwellness.org/
question.cfm/43700.htm

http://www.redorbit.com/news/
health/631560/prevent_drug_disasters/
index.html?source=r_health'

http://allnurses.com/forums/
f16/ethical-legal-question-54987.html

Sat Mar 17, 06:08:00 PM EDT

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

a follow-up to my earlier post: i received my patient records today and see that i was given 150 mcg of fentanyl prior to the procedure along with 3 mg of versed. Twenty minutes later (at the time when i was crying out in pain i presume) I was given another 1 mg of versed. Why did they respond to my pain by giving me more of a drug that does not affect pain - only my recall?

In the nurses notes it indicates that the procedures were 'well tolerated'. Really? Not in my opinionn since the only recall I have is one of being in distress.

Additionally, the report indicates I was given an IV with 1 mg of versed throughout the procedure. And although the procedure was finished at 1304, the IV was not discontinued for another 26 minutes. Why the continued medication?

Finally, with respect to patient consent, the only records they have is a note that says "pre op instructions given". Never was the word "amnesia" ever mentioned. Why?

I find all this troubling. Not a lot to do at this point but I hope others are forwarned.

John

Thu Mar 22, 05:31:00 PM EDT

 
Anonymous Jackie said...

John, I have NEVER seen a hospital report that says anything other than "pt tolerated the procedure well." This is code for "we don't want no malpractice suit." If you go to www.thedoctors.com they clearly outline that the patient is never to be told of an "incident." Also that the next Doctor you go to is not to say anything but "I don't know what happened!" I am collecting stories from people who will allow me to speak on behalf of Versed sufferers in the hopes of getting elected official interested in what is going on behind the closed doors of our hospitals and clinics. As much as this drug Versed is used isn't it funny that none of us was aware of it until it was too late? You should have a copy of the "informed consent" which you signed outlining what they were planning in your procedure. Conscious sedation should be mentioned. They usually slip this past without revealing the amnesia, but they can always point to the document and say see? The patient knew all about it! If they cannot produce this document it's lawsuit time! Without the "informed consent, it's an assault, according to several attorneys. It's hard to prove brain/mental damage, so if they have this signed document they can lie (which they will) and say that they verbally told you about the amnesia.

Thu Mar 22, 09:27:00 PM EDT

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jackie,

In requesting information from the facility about my procedure and the medication I was given, I specifically requested any consent forms I may have signed. None was provided to me. I did not recall ever seeing or signing one but was thinking with all the things they typically ask you to sign (insurance, privacy, etc.) maybe I signed one without noticing it. But it appears there was not one provided and/or signed in my case.

John

Fri Mar 23, 07:48:00 AM EDT

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

John if I may suggest talking to a bunch of lawyers until one takes your case. No "informed consent" equals an assault in some states. I had to call at least 10 and I e-mailed 10 more before I found one. I didn't get anywhere until I could prove that there was no "informed consent."

Wed Mar 28, 10:49:00 PM EDT

 
Blogger Antigone said...

On the issue of Versed, I think even under "informed consent" one could argue that the term is ambiguous. If a patient signs an informed consent to mild sedation, and the physician suggests as does the literature distributed that the patient may experience slight abdominal cramping, with no pain or discomfort, and probably won't remember, then really, is that informed consent? The term is ambiguous, a fact that could be argued in a court of law. I am all for a suit against the drug manufacturer. I had a horrific experience with this drug during my colonoscopy, and was in excruciating pain and still have nightmares about it. I did contact my practitioner immediately and they are changing their policies to better educate patients, which I think is fair. Still, I think use of this drug is questionable and dangerous at best, as it seems completely unpredictable

Thu Mar 29, 10:18:00 AM EDT

 
Anonymous Jackie said...

Any Versed sufferer out there from Greenville SC? If so I need to talk to you...

Fri Mar 30, 12:59:00 PM EDT

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My wife had a colonoscopy two months ago. They told her nothing, just "sign on dotted line" and "you will not remember anything"! They used versed, 3 mg followed by another 5 mg during the procedure. She came out of this with everything described as I have read here. All I want is my wife back as she was before the procedure. She was a strong woman, and now she is a basket case. She refuses to go to any doctor now and she does have problems. She is afraid she will be tortured more. The lawyers just laugh, say it will cost to much and we will lose. Just why is this allowed in the United States? How do we stop these butchers!

Fri Apr 06, 02:18:00 PM EDT

 
Blogger -Tim said...

I would suggest that it is allowed by the powers that be because of money, convenience, and probably people taking the path of least resistance.

How to stop it? We need a few lawyers. I'm waiting for the Versed pushers to piss off a lawyer - when one feels the way we do here, he/she will probably want to join the club.

Until then, I would encourage folks to meet here, to share their ideas.

Post an email address for us to use, or, if you'd like me to keep it private, send me an email at tolena2001@yahoo.com.

Fri Apr 06, 04:12:00 PM EDT

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Believe it or not, they don't give this stuff to lawyers when they go in for a procedure. Wonder why! At least that is what the nurse told me. They only get the demerol. So I doubt one will get pissed off.

My wife and I have done something but don't know if it will do any good. We took out a reader ad in the local penny saver directing people to the "www.colonoscopywarning.com" site. Hopefully it will get some people asking questions.

Fri Apr 06, 05:27:00 PM EDT

 
Anonymous Jackie said...

Dear anonymous, I am a strong woman and Versed reduced me to a paranoid maniac as well. I can tell you this. The first 2 months were the absolute worst. I was so freaked out I could barely hold a coherant thought, couldn't perform my job, couldn't sleep and wanted to kill myself and others. The mania has slowly subsided. It is almost a year now and while I am still FURIOUS, I don't feel so out of control. I still have problems sleeping and concentrating, but not ANYTHING like before. Kirt told me that his whatever the Versed thing is peaked after some weeks and THAT information kept me from going completely insane, thinking that I would be that way forever. Whether we get over it completely or not remains to be seen. I am also too anxious about Versed to go back to the hospital. I have a medical alert bracelet that says "no Versed," but I still don't feel safe. I need another surgery to correct the dangerous outcome of the first one, and I wrote Tim last week telling him that I am just too terrified to go back into the hospital. And believe me I am pretty tough! These people are absolutely determined to use this substance on us and I have been unable to get anyone to confess truthfully why they desperately want to use Versed. There IS a reason why. We in the general public just don't know what that subversive reason might be. The medical staff has seen many many people have a seriously bad reaction to this particular drug and yet they use it. By the way, I wrote letters to the editor outlining the abuse of the drug Versed and got some sympathetic replies and a LOT of very vitriolic people trying to justify using Versed by calling me names, impugning my motives for telling about Versed (fearmongering) and opining that I must have the "IQ of a gnat" or been "crazy" all along. Don't let that upset you. This is an extremely bad drug and the more people know about it the better off everybody will be. Here is an odd thing about Versed. It appears (anecdotally) to affect analytical minds the worst. There are way too many engineers and professional people with adverse reactions to Versed, as opposed to the nebulous "other people." You know, all those happy people who love having their brains melted and approve of chemically induced mental illness.

Fri Apr 06, 09:58:00 PM EDT

 
Anonymous John said...

Jackie,

"Way to many engineers and professional people..." That's an interesting observation, since i'm an engineer also.

I saw a therapist last week about the anxiety and anger caused by my negative Versed experience. One of the things we discussed was my total lack of recreational drug use (except for alcohol). He seemed to feel this was significant. He feels alcohol is not the same as other recreational drugs in that one is typically more aware of and able to calibrate the effects. He says people vary significantly in their willingness to 'loose control' via drugs. I think he is correct in that this is related to my feelings about my Versed experience. I probably desire it less than most people, hence my strong reaction to having it done to me without my knowledge or consent.

I am happy to note that my out-of-control anger and anxiety are greatly diminished after this single visit to the therapist. We initially got off to a rocky start since he requested I sign a 'consent to treat' form that had blank spaces on it, so we had to have a little discussion about that issue first, cause I'm not casually signing any forms like that again (not that i was even offered the opportunity to sign one for my Versed experience). In any case, I now feel i'm in a position to regain control of my feelings about this whole thing. I recommend anyone with these problems seek similar mental health counseling. It certainly has been helpful to me.

I commend Tim for starting this site and giving people a forum to express their feelings and maybe somehow warn unsuspecting people before it happens to them. But I also hope that people that have been harmed by this drug find whatever method works for them to be healed and go back to having a good life. Personally, I find the mythical story of The Drowning Man Ritual to be particularly helpful in convincing me to forgive (even to those who might not deserve it) and free myself from the terrible psychic burden of anger. I think there is great value in forgiving those who we believe have harmed us - not for their sake, but for our own. As a fellow Versed victim, I have empathy for your anger and know you deserve to be relieved of the harmful emotions you continue to experience.

John

The Drowning Man Ritual
Everyone who loses somebody wants revenge, on God if they can't find anyone else. But in Africa, in Matobo, the Ku believe that the only way to end grief is to save a life. If someone is murdered, a year of mourning ends with a ritual that we call the Drowning Man Trial. There's an all-night party beside a river. At dawn, the killer is put in a boat. He's taken out on the water and he's dropped. He's bound so that he can't swim. The family of the dead then has to choose. They can let him drown or they can save him. The Ku believe that if the family lets the killer drown, they'll have justice but spend the rest of their lives in mourning. But if they save him, if they admit that life isn't always just... that very act can take away their sorrow.

Mon Apr 09, 01:52:00 PM EDT

 
Blogger -Tim said...

There is a thread in the All Nurses forum that was quickly shut down when the docs didn't like the responses they were getting:

http://allnurses.com/forums/f16/ethical-legal-question
-54987-7.html#post2116811

An engineer (ORNLxxx) gets to the heart of the matter:

ORNLxxx:

Re: Ethical/Legal question

"I am a patient and although I haven't read this thread entirely I would like to make a comment. I too feel that my right to informed consent was compromised. I was
given Versed without any discussion of how it would erase my memory for the next 2 hours. Had I known this I would have asked what other options existed (i.e.,Valium), and whether anything was necessary as I was not experiencing anxiety. Yes, I understand that Versed
acts in an additive way with other anesthetic drugs. However, can anesthesia really not be performed without Versed ? I doubt it.

As for how much I want to know -i.e., "need to learn anesthesia from a non-anesthesia professional". Well, I think I should have been given options, i.e., would I rather have an anesthetic that guarantees I will be out of commission for several hours but also if there is a problem can be reversed pharmacologically, or would I rather have an anesthetic that has a much faster half life but cannot be reversed (i.e., propofol). I would have chosen safety over a couple of hours of inconvenience.

I recognize my limits in terms of knowledge about anesthetic drugs and defer to the experts to give me the facts. However, I, and I alone, have the right to make decisions about my treatment. I am an engineer. Give me the complication rates, give me your recommendations, and then let ME make the decisions.

From what I know now - Versed will not be in my future. I don't know about propofol but I do know that whatever drugs that have the absolute least likelihood of killing me will be my choice. I don't give a crap whether it is convenient or whether my caregiver prefers that I not
remember."

paindoc:

"What more needs to be said on this subject that hasn't already been said. This is endless repetition of the same contentions and assertions. There can be no useful discussion on this issue due to a matter of perspective."

traumaRUs:

"This thread was started in 2004 and began with a theoretical scenario. It has rambled along for 7 full pages and is now focused on individual patient experiences which borders on providing medical advice. We at All Nurses can not provide anesthesia advice anymore than we can provide medical advice. I understand your concerns about medications given to you. However, I would advise you all to bring your concerns to the your anesthesiologists of choice and proceed on.

If you feel something has been done against your will, please again bring it up to your medical provider. Take care..."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Paindoc refers to "perspective" which is ludicrous since the main thread here is anesthesiologists blatantly walking over patients. Saying "no" to Versed is unambiguous.

TraumaRUs calls attention to the fact that the thread began in 2004. So what? Also, the "theoretical" scenario referred to was most likely an actual event. Finally, it is a stretch to say that the posts are bordering on medical advice.

What weak excuses! They ended the dialog because they did not like the tone of the responses.

Fri Apr 13, 12:15:00 PM EDT

 
Blogger -Tim said...

Here's another place to complain:

http://www.jointcommission.org
/GeneralPublic/Complaint/

Thu May 03, 11:35:00 PM EDT

 
Anonymous Casey said...

I've been trying for a loooong time to get someone in the medical community to talk to me about Versed. Anyone have detailed step-by-step information on exactly how Versed acts on you? How exactly it affects the patient? What an observer would see? How the patient feels?

Wed May 16, 11:42:00 PM EDT

 
Blogger -Tim said...

Casey:

I do not know the exact mechanisms involved, but it is suppsed to sedate a person and it generally causes amnesia. People can, apparently, carry on a conversation while under the influence. An observer may notice little if anything. One problem is it often turns people into zombies - they are more or less paralyzed and may lose touch with where they are.
If you read the stories here and on askapatient.com, you will find people who recall being aware but were unable to control their body and unable to communicate. Many experienced pain. (Versed is not supposed to kill pain).

Wed May 23, 03:30:00 PM EDT

 
Blogger Dot said...

I've had a few experiences with Versed, and just let me say, I have a Medic Alert necklace that says that I am allergic to benzodiazepines. Any surgery that I have in the future will be with general anesthesia and not before telling everyone that I come in contact with at the hospital that I "WILL NOT TAKE VERSED."

I have a colonoscopy every 2 years without anesthesia (just some demerol) and, while a little painful, absolutely the right choice for me.

My problems with Versed were the after-effects (but then, of course, I don't remember anything about during the procedures). I experienced extreme insomnia that lasted months, blunted emotions, an inability to be still, and large hives that appeared off and on for months. I had other symptoms, but I'm not sure if they were caused by the Versed or by the fact that I couldn't sleep, etc.

This happened to me a couple of times, but the last time was when I put the puzzle together. I thought I was just going crazy, but found a group on the web that pretty much saved me. I took me almost 2 years to feel like things were back to normal again.

I'm glad to find this blog, and that it's available for others to access before they innocently agree to administration of Versed.

I have to say that I have relatives who have used Versed with no problems, but for me, never again.

Wed May 23, 07:59:00 PM EDT

 
Blogger L said...

I was first given Versed in 2005, when I went to have a colonoscopy. Prior to that, I had never even heard of the drug. Before the colonoscopy, I was told by my internist that I would be “knocked out.” The lady who scheduled my appointment with the gastroenterologist told me that I would have a “twilight drug”, that I would have a “conscious sedation.” No mention was ever made by any medical personnel about anterograde amnesia. After the colonoscopy I had a very strange, creepy feeling for several weeks. I felt as if I was trying desperately to remember something but couldn’t; like I was trying to remember someone’s name. I wondered what kind of drug I had received for the colonoscopy because I was so obsessive about it. I got a copy of my report from the gastro.’s office and found out that they had given me Versed (Midazolam) and Fentenyl (a very strong pain killer). I researched Versed and found out about the amnesia. That’s when my weird feelings finally started to make sense to me.

I felt that I had been deceived and violated. I had thought prior to the colonoscopy that I would be receiving a drug that would just make me relaxed and not care about what was happening. I was disappointed afterwards to not have any recollection at all. In 1978 I had general anesthesia for surgery but it was not the same. Gen. anesthesia did not give me the weird, creepy feeling that Versed did. I felt that I did not want to ever receive Versed again.

Months later, I had to have surgery and knew that I would be receiving gen. anesthesia so I didn’t even think about Versed. After the surgery, I had the same weird, obsessive feelings that I’d had after the colonoscopy. I became extremely depressed and anxious. I ended up having to see a psychiatrist who put me on antidepressants. Later, I got a copy of my surgery report and found out that I had once again received Versed. Apparently, Versed is now used prior to general anesthesia being administered.

I had no idea that they would give me Versed before general anesthesia or I would have requested that they did not give it to me.

Now I am anxious about receiving Versed again without my consent or knowledge.

For a long time I thought that I was very unique in my aversion to Versed. Other people who I talked to who’d had a colonoscopy had not had the same creepy feelings that I had. Other people wondered why I would want to remember anything. Then I found some other people on the internet who shared my animosity toward this drug.

I think that the FDA needs to do more research on the adverse effects of Versed. It’s only been around since 1986 and was initially used in pediatrics to alleviated separation anxiety in children when they had to be away from their parents. It gave them amnesia so that they wouldn’t remember from one moment to the next that their parents weren’t there.

Now it is used on thousands of unsuspecting people every day for dental surgery, in ambulances, and for endoscopy procedures. A friend of mine had in vitro fertilization at an infertility clinic and they used it on her there. She said that she didn’t care because she didn’t want to remember anything about it.

I don’t know why Versed bothers some people and other people it doesn’t. All I know is that it frightens me.

Tue May 29, 01:39:00 AM EDT